Discussion of the origins of some (probably FLZ) Millita-type rifles

Discussion of the origins of some (probably FLZ) Millita-type rifles 

See also:

https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/unknown-unmarked-airguns/unmarked-airguns/#post-340

I asked Eberhard whether the origins of this rifle could be proved as by Fritz Langenhan (FLZ), suggested by the rifle's owner, Steve:

https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/unknown-unmarked-airguns/unmarked-milita-type-air-rifle-elaborate-trigger-guard/#post-7282

and he said (translation from German):

Unfortunately not 100%,

This LG appears regularly in various catalogues.

Probably FLZ - Langenhan also had the logo Germania-Werke.

From 1902 G.Reichenstein had this LG with a different trigger system.

From 1905 it is in almost all catalogs with different variants.

From 1914 there is the variant  "P" with a new trigger guard

He sent scans of these three catalogue pages:

1902-G.Reichstein

1905-J.G.Anschütz

1914-GECO

Discussing the same issue on the American Vintage Airgun forum, Steve and Larry Hannusch (who owns the similar 5mm rifle  pictured one in from the right here:

https://forum.vintageairgunsgallery.com/group-pics-of-vintage-airguns/larry-h-sale-table-findlay-2022/#post-7283)

said:

Steve:

Just acquired a very early prewar WW1 FLZ that I thought I never saw before.  Looking over my pics from the Findlay Airgun Show there is another one on Larry Hannusch’s table! Lol. Well I have the more unusual stock anyway and someone changed it to a 20 cal.  He calls it a Oscar Will?  Think he’s wrong.  Funny I remember asking Larry about the rifle cause it interested me but the ,20 cal conversion turned me off a bit. But now having shot it in a smooth bore ,25 the conversion makes a bit of sense.

 

Larry:

I could easily be wrong, but let me offer some evidence which would lead me to that erroneous assertion:

1) As far as I know, Langenhan never entered nor offered any airguns which would be considered to be parlor/shooting gallery forms, The early makers that did make the gallery times usually offered both the plain commercial models and fancier versions for the wealthy shooters for their home range. Oscar Will made plain commercial  Bugelspanners and fancier grades for those who desired to buy bragging rights.

2) Look closely at my nickelled breakbarrel on the table...the barrel is quite different from your very nice example. On closer examination, you will notice not only the expected octagonal-to-round barrel, but realize that the muzzle end re-introduces a short octagonal section housing the beaded front sight. This is a very artistic design flair seen on Will's fancier Bugelspanners.

3) Speaking of barrels, this .20 caliber smoothbore barrel is not a re-barrel, but is factory original. I've had two signed, late production Will Bugelspanners over the years (marked "Original" in Will's typical script on the barrel) which had .20 caliber barrels-one was actually rifled. I have always wondered if the Will firm was trying to capitalize on some of Quackenbush's .21 market dominance in that era.

 

Steve:

That’s fascinating, my ignorance that a old gun like that could be 20 cal!.  I actually thought my gun was Oscar Will given there were a lot of characteristics that matched his rifles.   I posted it on a German forum and a major collector over there said it was FLZ and posted this from a 1910 catalog.

It seems to be the “Original” Original which was one of FLZ’s trademarks, but that word was also used by Oscar Will.  Mine is a 25 cal smooth bore so it would seem to indicate that FLZ was into parlor rifles?  Need to translate all the German on the ad but the picture was so poor?  It may not be surprising that rifles from these to makers have similar characteristics...

I guess the ultimate question is who was the first to develop the Millita concept?  Not sure it can be answered? Looking at Oscar Wills 1902 catalog it is not yet developed.  I think 1900 is where some people say that these were being imported to England?  I guess my assumption is that FLZ could be the first but they could have been just the one with early success?

Larry added:

Here is a page from the 1913 GC Dornheim catalog ( a retailer...not a manufacturer) showing both your nice earlier FLZ and the later FLZ Original V with pendant barrel latch.  The photo you posted from the gallery does a great service in showing solid evidence that there could be several transitional forms from that era. By the way, my experiences are that the FLZ family of "Original" air rifles are stamped with the name "Original" in block letters in the metal or wood, whereas the Will bugelspanners are marked "Original" in script.

Also, notice that they offered your rifle in both .177 and .25 in a millita form, and not as a parlor bugelspanner.