When I bought my FWB-300S, I started a 300S group. It has been very
successful with approximately 150 members world wide. Several FWB-
300S rifles have found new homes because of the group activity.

I got my Whiscombe JW-65 for Christmas, 2002. It rivals my 300S in
accuracy, quality, construction, ingenuity, and just plain fun.

There aren't very many Whiscombes out there in airgun-land. It takes
a special kind of person to save up for what I consider "the ultimate
springer". But, we're here none-the-less; and always ready to
talk "Whiscombe".

I hope that this group finds the popularity that the 300S group has
enjoyed. The group is open to membership by anyone that currently
owns a Whiscombe, eventually wishes to own one, or simply has an
interest in them.

Membership in Yahoo groups take several forms. Members can elect to
receive an email, generated for each and every forum post (the way I
do it). Or, members can have a list of current forum posts sent to
them via email so that they can read only the posts that are of
interest. Or, finally, members can choose to not have any email
sent; treating the group as a regular forum.

PLease pass the word that this group exists; especially when you see
questions on other forums about Whiscombe air rifles. Activity
justifies the group's existence.

Ken

Hi Ken, I'm currently saving up for my first, but I'd honestly like
to find a used JW 50, or 60. Perhaps even a tipper, but for the most
part one with a lower energy level. I'm still going to have to save
up. You know how I feel about Giss guns, and some day I'd like to do
a walking, side by side comparrison with the Mod. 75U,and the Mod 66
against a JW 60, and JW 50 tipper, I just need to find the right
Whiscombe owner to administer the Beating! I know they lack the
range, but for the time being they will be my poor mans whiscombes,
and provide the catalyst for my Whiscombe Aquisition !!! I hope this
becomes as successful as the FWB 300 group. GOOD LUCK !!! ;^)

I'm an oldtime Whiscombe owner. John built me a couple special guns
with serial number one of the series, including a JW75 tip-barrel and
the JW60MKII, both being left hand in walnut. My first gun was a JW50
tipbarrel #00050 i got in the mid-eighties, which i liked so much i
got the 75 the next year.

I know there are other guns that can match em for power or accuracy
(rarely both), but they are still my favorites, and are the most
special springers made so far as i'm concerned, and i've owned about
every kind there is at one time or another.

I have my opinions, and they are strong ones, based on experience.
Heres one for new buyers:

Don't waste money on extra barrels ... get .22 if you hunt, .177 if
you are going to compete. If you will compete, get one thats cocked
twice only.

ld

I was hoping you'd join our group, LD.  Your knowledge of the Whiscombes came to mind when I created the group. 

Funny you should mention about the multiple barrels.  I bought JW-65 with .177 and a .20 barrel.  The .20 barrel is in the safe and may never be put onto the rifle. 

The first Whiscombe I ever saw is owned by a competitive silhouette shooter here in the Dallas area.  It's a tip-barrel that he's owned since 1992.  One shot was all it took!  I hit my turkey (at 36 yards) and loved the feel, balance, and lack of recoil of the rifle.   I began the communication and order process that week.   I like the feel and sound of a springer.  The springers that don't recoil are special to me.   I suspect that I'll own another Whiscombe some day.  Next one will be  his "softer spring" model.   My '65 shoots JSB Exacts and CPLs in the upper 900fps range (almost 1,000 fps).  With the restrictor in place, it shoots heavies at just under 12 FPE.   

Whenever guests wish to shoot the rifle, I always cock and load for them.  Do you think that's o.k.?  I don't want anything bad to happen to the rifle.

Ken

A Whiscombe forum wouldn't be complete without your insight L.D. you
have a broad knowledge base to draw on ! Virtually everything I know
about the Whiscombe Rifle has come from You or Ken !

Can I assume those are your L.D. ? and Arnold already beat me to
the Whiscombe link ! What I'd really like to see is Some Whiscombe
schematics, for comparative analysis ! Any Body ? are there any
Whiscombe manuals floating around that might be scanned ???

I'd love to get a 50, or even a soft-tune 50. Anybody know why John
stopped making them? That seems the perfect combination of easy
cocking effort and the just-under 12FPE would set you up for
International FT.

"Whenever guests wish to shoot the rifle, I always cock and load for
them. Do you think that's o.k.? I don't want anything bad to
happen to the rifle"

I think it's OK to do whatever you want with your Whizzer. I read a
tip on the FT forum that it's best to let folks shoot your rig AFTER
the competition, because of the risk of something getting out of
zero if they do so beforehand.

I read on LD's forum (I think) that the popular configuration is his new JW-70 with a soft spring.  My '65 is not particularly easy to cock; and it shoots at about 940 fps with CPHs (it has been several months since I shot through the Chrony and actually I don't remember how many fps).  Anyway, a softer-shooting gun would suite me just fine.   I don't know what changes he's made from the JW-65 like I have and his new JW-70.

Ken

JW still (sort of) makes the 50, but he changed the
model# to 60: length of spring travel in mm. The new
model is characterized as a "soft-spring" 60, and
should be similar, spec-wise, to the old 50, but with
a "smoother" action.

Leo Duran.

No, I didnt post any pics here

Perhaps you might ask John for dwgs?

ld

I reckon yours might have been a south paw too ? Never the less. I
LIKE IT !!!

Hello folks...I hope to be an owner soon. I ordered one just like
Kens a few months ago but there's been a slippage in parts supply so
my 65 has been delayed and is gonna be a 70. I am also finishing a
deal for a used JW50 in .177 and need some advise. I was thinking of
having the current owner send the rifle to John Whiscombe for
a "check over" prior to sending it to me. Would this be a good idea
or waste of time?

You know John ! I'd be More than happy to look that JW 50 over for
ya ! ;^) and I Realllllly mean that !

To all who would like to become a Whiscombe owner:

Heed the advice of ld. I regret that I ordered my 22 cal JW-80 before
getting his recommendations. Although I've had my rifle for about a
year, and I think it's marvelous in power and accuracy, I find the
third cocking stroke to be a bit much for my aging muscles. A day
with my JW-80 really tires me out. As a result, I don't shoot it as
often as I'd like to. Now I wish I had a two-stroke version. Oh well,
it's back to saving up again.

Regards,
ProfHoff

Prof,
Welcome to the group.  You have a beautiful Whiscombe, for sure. 

I understand what you mean.  My JW-65 is not an "easy cocker" either.  The first cock is easy enough but the second one is at least 25% (estimated) harder.  I thought about you and your 3-stroke cocker and was glad I ordered the '65.  I'll bet you can get John to modify yours inexpensively.

The more I shoot the Whiscombe, the more I like it.  From my knee, it overlaps pellets at 30 yards (the extent of my backyard range).  It's shooting Kodiak Match pellets at 875 - 882 FPS (ten shot string) and CPL pellets at 1014 - 1017 FPS.   I just finished shooting this 20-shot test for this post.

I shot the rifle last night at thumbnail-sized targets off-hand at 30+ yards and could hit 7 out of 10 at times in my good runs.  (this was shooting silhouette chickens at 30+ yards instead of 20 yards).  I'm not sure my ZM Steyr will do that.  (wish I could shoot like that in real competition)  I have a Bushnell Elite 4200 8-32X with the standard duplex reticle scope on the rifle.  I'm going to send the scope to have a 1/2" MOA target dot installed very soon.

I've now moved the JW-65 to the top of my favorite list of air rifles I own.  I got the rifle with two barrels (.177 and .20); but may never swap barrels because the gun is so good in the .177 caliber.   I think LD also gives advice to buy the gun with one barrel.  (I wonder if John would take the .20 barrel back in trade for partial payment for another Whiscombe)   I'd like to have a soft-shooting JW-65 or his new model, the '70. 

Someone needs to tell JW about this group so he can get feedback about his products.

Ken

Ken,

What all do you expect would be different in the
"soft-spring" 70, vs the 65?

As I understand it, the firing cycle should be a bit
smoother, but I don't know about the cocking effort
and energy levels.

Leo.

Well, I may be incorrectly assuming that a softer spring would not be as hard to cock and may not shoot quite as hard as my '65. 

I'm not sure what other changes JW has made between the -65 and -70. 

At 05:16 PM 4/26/2003 -0700, you wrote:

Ken,

I concluded the deal with Pickering Airguns in Scotland and
am "officially" a JW50 owner. I also had a nice conversation with
Mr. Whiscombe. He agreed to accept the rifle from Pickering Arms and
check it out thoroughly. Asked him about the status of the JW70 --
he said that he did some R&D while waiting for parts resulting in a
smoother firing cycle and a couple of ft/lbs increase. BTW: mine is
5th in line...I cancelled the second barrel in lieu of another rifle
in .22.

Ken,

I think this would be an excellent question for the
"man himself" (previous 65 vs current 70).
It would also make for an excellent introduction to
our Yahoo group.

So, I hereby propose that you, being the owner/host of
this group, introduce John to our group.

Leo.

Anybody out there have a JW75?  I ended up selling mine a while back, and now was able to buy the same one back.  It's my daughters favorite air rifle, and she kept asking me why I sold "Mr. Whiscombe."  When it came back to its home, we were ecstatic.  Just as fine and beautiful as it was when it left.  It's a JW75 (soft) Serial number 20.  The blueing is the richest, deepest and blackest I have ever seen.  The thumbhole walnut stock is between grade 3 and 4, very rich, with excellent stippling. I keep the .22 barrel on it, but also have a .177 I had bought directly from John.  It averages .22 Premier heavies at 850 fps.  I'm so happy the JW is back.  I think its time to clean the barrel.....  Thanks for this Whiscombe group.

Tony

Gentlemen ... and ladies as well:

You fellows rather re-kindled my desire to shoot my JW-80.

Yesterday (shooting CPs in both guns) whilst popping starlings off my
bird feeders at 40 yards, I noticed that my 22 cal TX-200 would knock
the critters clean off their perch. However, when using the JW, Mr.
Starling would just keel over. All hits resulted in pellet pass-
through.

Indeed, I do understand that the 22 cal JW pellet hits harder (has
more velocity) than the TX. Can it be that the higher velocity JW
pellet just zips through the target so quickly that the inertia of
the bird's body allows it to remain relatively unmoved? Theories and
explanations welcomed. Thanks.

Regards,
ProfHoff

Yep, my guess is your experience is like the magician pulling the
tablecloth out from under a fully-set table--yet nothing is
disturbed. If you do it quickly enough and with enough force, the
inertia of the dishes leaves them undisturbed.

Perhaps i'm getting way out of touch and my ramblings are dated?
I know in the olden days the JW70 series needed THREE cocking strokes.
Is John now producing a model "70" that takes fewer strokes?
BTW, i once asked him to consider making a sidelever PISTOL
version of his gun, but he refused. Too bad.

Hint, lightly oil the gear racks and esp the pinion gear pivot bolt
on occasion to maintain smoothness and avoid wear.
This is the ONLY maintenance i have found nessesary
on my guns besides barrel cleaning.

I'm confused, too.

I thought I read
(on the Anything Goes forum) that the last of the -65's were out the door and the new model
(someone called it the -70) was taking its place. 
I do remember that there was a previous -70 model taking 3-strokes and
wondered how he would duplicate that previous model nomenclature for a new, different rifle.

I just went to the JW website and found
that the -65 is now called the -67, 
MK II.  I don't remember if it was called the MK II last year when I ordered mine or not and
I don't know what the differences are. 
Wish someone would clear it up.  I like my two-stroker just fine. 
Sometimes I wish it would cock with a single stroke
(especially for timed events like metal silhouette competition). 
But then it would be too hard to cock. 
I'd like to know what the difference is between my -65 and the new model.

The power of the rifle is fine . . . .
I can hear the difference between CPLs and CPHs at 30 yards. 
At 1,015  FPS the CPL pellets get there in a hurry for sure. 
I'm not sure which is best for silhouette competition (heavier/slower or lighter/faster). 

Ken

Robb, have you made arrangements to buy a Whiscombe yet?

I know you like springers . . . . you'll love a Whiscombe.  Remember, it took 9 months for mine to arrive.

Ken

I've only been checking out JW's web-site for the last
year... so I don't know about previous history.

As I understand it, based on his latest "soft spring"
changes the model# are going to be:
Last year => This year
Model 50 => 60 (2 strokes)
Model 65 => 70 (2 strokes)
Model 80 => 80 (3 strokes) - no change in model#

This is the site I've looking at:

Ken, is that the same site you visited? I did not see
any listing for a -67, so maybe I've been looking at
the wrong one?

Leo.

Yes, same site.  And I don't know where the 
"67" nomenclature that I typed came from. 
I guess I was thinking 65 MK-2 and simply added the numbers 65 + 2 together
to come up with something that doesn't exist.  (chuckle) 
I'm mildly dyslexic and also my mind thinks ahead of my mouth and fingers on its own sometimes.

Ken

Not yet, but it's on my list of guns to get. I'm getting a 75U in
as soon as some parts can be found, so I'll get to play around with
a soft-cocking giss gun when that happens.

A soft-cocking Whizzer is what I'm really after. I would have liked
a JW50 set under 12FPE. That, or if he ever came out with a "match"
version. Was the JW50 a one-stroke or two? As you know I really
love the 10M match springers, and I don't feel a need to get a
really hard-hitting gun. I have a ProElite and ZM Steyr that hit
hard, and that's more than enough for my collection.

Maybe a used 50 if I can find one, or maybe his newest guns cock as
easy as the old 50, I don't know. I'm with you though--single
stroke is best for Silhouette if the effort is manageable.

I've been timing myself with the Whiscombe to see if
I can get off 5 shots in the 2-1/2 minute time period.  It's close! 
By the time I get the rifle double-cocked, loaded, up to my shoulder, relax, find the proper target,
and beginn the concentration to fire; many seconds have transpired. 
The saving grace is that for the first shot, you have 15 seconds to do all that preparation
and; you can shoot as soon as the man says "fuego" or "fire". 
That instant begins the 2-1/2 minutes. 
So I really have 2-1/2 minutes for the four following shots.

I think I can score just about as well with the Whizzer as I can with my Steyr. 
(upper 20's to low 30's). 
There's absolutely no "muzzle flip" with the Whizzer, so where it's pointed is where I see the pellet hit. 
The Whiscombe platform is more stable for off-hand shooting, too (in my opinion).

You'll like a GISS gun. 
They are every bit as intriguing 
as the sliding action 300S.

Find the proper target (from above). 
I can't tell you how many times I've shot the wrong chicken! 
With a 35X scope, all I can see is one chicken at a time. 
Once, I steadied so quickly on the chicken so quickly
and easily that I thought, "might as well shoot . . . it's never going to get better than this!" 
 
I shot and then heard, "Ken, you shot one of my chickens" from the shooter adjacent to me. 
Oh, phooey! 
(and it was such a good, clean, dead-center hit).  
Now, I count 
over 
and up to the target chicken before getting serious about shooting. 
That takes a couple or three seconds. 
Added to the double-cocking and loading, I may not have time for the rest of the process.

Ken

Uh Robb ! Ken's lookin for a 75 U too ! Kinda like dangglin a Porter
House in front of a Rottweiler, aint it ? and are you absoluteley
certain you wouldn't rather have a JW 65 ?

Yeah, Robb.
I want a 75U, too . . . mainly because I like the more sporting look of the stock. 
My 75T01 is being refurbished by the expert right now. 
It won't ever be for sale (in my lifetime) unless a beautiful 75U comes available.
Then, I'll have a big decision to make.

Ken's lookin for a 75 U too ! Kinda like dangglin a Porter
> House in front of a Rottweiler, aint it ?

LOL. Yeah maybe, but on the other hand he already has a 75HV so I
don't feel too badly.

and are you absoluteley
> certain you wouldn't rather have a JW 65 ?--- Sure am, the line is
longer for a good-condition 75! I'll get a JW someday, but I'd like
to get my 10M guns first since the timing can be trickier. Maybe by
then there will be a lower-power JW offered--now that would be sweet.

Have I ever steered you wrong?

No way, your advice is always spot on! You know I've got a Whiscomb
in my sights--I just have a couple of other collectibles to find
first as they become available.

You'd absolutely love a Whiscombe. (but,
> no . . .you can't have mine).

But can I rent to own? LOL

I have fired decent Silhouette scores years ago using my tip-barrel three-cocker JW75
and alm,ost never ran out of time.
Its really a bit too powerful as it sends some of animals out too far past the berms.
The JW50 tipbarrel is really sweet,
and believe it or not, mine can punch out over 17fpe with the
.22 cal barrel fitted, tho it only puts out 13.5fpe in .177.

About the "MK II" designation ...
this refers to the latest series with thicker receiver tube.
I'm pretty sure JW80 guns are "MKII", since they intro'd the new action.
My JW60 MKII is serial #1 of that size ... but each size has a #1.
Looking at the action, it looks "smoother" and thicker than the older series.

ld

 wrote:

>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> 
>
> ------
>
> There are 13 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. JW-80 / TX-200 vs Starlings
> From: "xenon552000"
> 2. Re: JW-80 / TX-200 vs Starlings
> From: "fwbrobbw"
> 3. Re: Digest Number 4
> From: lhdurham
> 4. Re: Digest Number 4
> From: Ken Ridout
> 5. Re: Re: JW-80 / TX-200 vs Starlings
> From: Ken Ridout
> 6. Re: Digest Number 4
> From: Leo Duran
> 7. Re: Digest Number 4
> From: Ken Ridout
> 8. Re: JW-80 / TX-200 vs Starlings
> From: "fwbrobbw"
> 9. Re: Re: JW-80 / TX-200 vs Starlings
> From: Ken Ridout
> 10. Re: JW-80 / TX-200 vs Starlings
> From: "Marc A Myers"
> 11. Re: Re: JW-80 / TX-200 vs Starlings
> From: Ken Ridout
> 12. Re: JW-80 / TX-200 vs Starlings
> From: "fwbrobbw"
> 13. Re: JW-80 / TX-200 vs Starlings
> From: "fwbrobbw"

> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 14:57:11 -0000
> From: "xenon552000"
> Subject: JW-80 / TX-200 vs Starlings
>
> Gentlemen ... and ladies as well:
>
> You fellows rather re-kindled my desire to shoot my JW-80.
>
> Yesterday (shooting CPs in both guns) whilst popping starlings off my
> bird feeders at 40 yards, I noticed that my 22 cal TX-200 would knock
> the critters clean off their perch. However, when using the JW, Mr.
> Starling would just keel over. All hits resulted in pellet pass-
> through.
>
> Indeed, I do understand that the 22 cal JW pellet hits harder (has
> more velocity) than the TX. Can it be that the higher velocity JW
> pellet just zips through the target so quickly that the inertia of
> the bird's body allows it to remain relatively unmoved? Theories and
> explanations welcomed. Thanks.
>
> Regards,
> ProfHoff

> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:16:32 -0000
> From: "fwbrobbw"
> Subject: Re: JW-80 / TX-200 vs Starlings
>
> Yep, my guess is your experience is like the magician pulling the
> tablecloth out from under a fully-set table--yet nothing is
> disturbed. If you do it quickly enough and with enough force, the
> inertia of the dishes leaves them undisturbed.

> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 10:00:14 -0700
> From: lhdurham
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 4
>
> Perhaps i'm getting way out of touch and my ramblings are dated?
I know in the olden days the JW70 series needed THREE cocking strokes.
Is John now producing a model "70" that takes fewer strokes?
BTW, i once asked him to consider making a sidelever PISTOL
version of his gun, but he refused. Too bad.
>
> Hint, lightly oil the gear racks
and esp the pinion gear pivot bolt on occasion to maintain smoothness
and avoid wear.
This is the ONLY maintenance i have found nessesary on my guns besides barrel cleaning.
>

Stupid me.  I could have easily looked at my -65 and have seen that it is a "Mark II". 

John is still advertising the -65, so maybe it was just rumor that it was discontinued.

LD,
Many of us thought that all Whiscombes were complete manufactured by JW himself. 
You wrote in a thread once that, "what makes you think John Whiscombe builds all his rifles himself." 
No one responded to that statement. 

Do you know the specifics about the manufacture of the Whiscombes? 
Does John fabricate the parts himself or sub them out to machine shops? 
Does he assemble them himself or have employees? 
Where does he get his gun stocks?  
I've always had this somewhat romantic idea that he does everything in his own workshop.

I'd just like to know a little more about the manufacture of these special rifles.

Ken

Finally the winter has lifted and reasonable weather is here. I have
been able to settle in with my JW80, and as per LD's advice, .22 is
the way to go. This gun shoots 14.3 CP pellets in one inch and less
at 50 yards. It pops a consistent 25 fpe at the muzzle and snaps
with some authority. To say the least, it is a gun that I enjoy
shooting. I tried one stalking crow hunt with it. The gun is a
brute, and the only shot I got was a good one at 60 yards. One
pellet, one headshot. Doesn't get any better than that.

This afternoon, I couldn't hit POOP. I shot and shot and shot, but
the Whiscombe wouldn't hit the targets reliably at all. (this is
after bragging about how well it shot over the weekend). Go figure!

Well, anyway, I discovered that the H.O.T.S. system locking
adjustment had come loose and the big part (whatever its called) had
re-adjusted itself. Worse yet, the fact that it was loose really
affected accuracy I think. It was wobbly on the end of the barrel.

AHA! (I thought) well, now I don't know where it was originally
adjusted. Not such bad news, though; because I had planned to do a
fine adjustment procedure anyway. I tightened it up a bit and shot
some more. The accuracy and consistency stunk so I began trying to
find that spot with the H.O.T.S. so make it shoot good again. I
never found it after about an hour of trying. Maybe other hardware
is loose too.

Sure enough, the forestock is not being tightly held in place by the
two allen-head screws. I can squeeze the wood and it moves under the
screw heads on both sides. A little more investigation proved that
one of the allen screws (or threaded hole it goes in) is stripped.
The allen screw won't tighten. The other side feels tight, but is
not gripping the wood at all.

Any suggestions?

Ken

I think I've discovered that the forestock screws are part of a shock-mounting assembly. 
The screws tighten down; but not on the wood. 
In fact, I don't think there's even any wood under the screw heads at all. 
Instead, it appears that the screws have nothing to do with gripping
the wood bits; but only hold a spacer in place. 

Capt. Bob, what does yours look like?  Can you squeeze and flex the forestock?

Ken

Ken, I noticed you said:
"I have a Bushnell Elite 4200 8-32X..."
And I saw you're bringing the Leupold 6.5-20 to LR.

Just wondering.
Leo.

Yes, I'm selling a new-in-the-box Leupold to fund
a new 14-35X silver Leupold (maybe the 50mm) from Premier for the Whiscombe. 
It's cheaper to buy new than to get the one I have souped up and color changed.

I do have a couple of 8-32X Bushnells.  I plan to get target dot reticles installed on both eventually.

Ken

Hello, I am negotiating on a jw50 with a tip barrel. I am usure of
what scope might fit the gun. Field target is a possible use of the
gun and most scope appear to be much too long, unless you have the
bell well past the loading port and elevated.

What options have others used?

Arnold,

At the recent "Cajun" FT match, Roz Sumpter had the
Burris 8-32x44 (#200859) mounted on his JW-50 tipper.

Leo.

Hi Arnold,

I have the older tip-up version JW75.  I have a Simmons 44 mag 6.5-20 with BKL forward reaching mounts.  I'm using the forward reaching mount "backwards" toward the ocular end of the scope, giving me even more room.  The scope is 14.5" long.

Tony

Arnold Bouchard Smith wrote:

Hello,  I am negotiating on a jw50 with a tip barrel.  I am usure of
what scope might fit the gun.  Field target is a possible use of the
gun and most scope appear to be much too long, unless you have the
bell well past the loading port and elevated.

What options have others used?

I have no personal experience with tip-barrel Whiscombes or FT, but"
My friend here in Dallas as a Leupold 6.5-20 EFR and it fits his "tipper" just fine. 
If for field target, get Premier Reticles to soup it up to 13-35X for better magnification and range finding. 

Ken

The reaction was the same from every shooter: A big smile appeared
on every face as soon as the gun fired! (John Ulrich's smile was
even bigger than usual)

And, I was very happy for LD to handle the rifle. I got a tip from
him:
Open the breech first, before cocking so that "clean" are is pulled
into the chamber instead of air from the previous round. LD says it
improves consistency. Makes sense to me!

Oh, tip #2: When benchresting the rifle, make sure the rifle is
supported by the forestock and not the cocking lever.

Also learned more about lubes, shifting POI, etc.

Thanks, LD.

Thump ! Thump ! Thump ! Thump ! Thump ! #;^) Yer killin me guys ! I
couldn't make it ! Again !

That means you'll have it within a couple of weeks or so.
It only took one week for mine to reach me from John.

If you talk to him again, tell him about our group here.

Ken

I am looking for a good air rifle. I like what I see in a Whiscombe
and would like to know more. I like the Beaman Super 17 also for the
ability to hold 17 pellets for repeat shots at the black birds.

Perhaps some manufacture makes an air rifle on the fasion of a paint
ball gun so I could have repeat fire power for black birds and other
pest.

I have not seen anything on e-Bay.

Responded to a post on Brad's site last month and posted pictures
here of a jw-50 tb in England. Today a large plastic wrapped box
showed on my doorstep. Opened the plastic, cut the tape, lifted the
top and the jw was staring at me. Stock much better than the photos,
metal is nicely blued, but all the action is not quite the same tone.
Tipped the barrel, cocked the gun - twice and about like my ProSport
on the second cocking. a cp-lite in the barrel and 'click' the
barrel snapped snugly in place. Aimed at the telephone pole and a
mild thunk-thwack. Nice and smooth. Loaded a second pellet, a
pigeon was about 30 yards away - no sites on the jw, but looked down
the barrel -> thunk-thwack pigeon flies to a nearby powerline. hops
around for a few seconds and then plummets.

Had a couple of comments / questions.
I have a .177 and .22 barrels. The .177 has a long muzzle brake with
a single allen screw. It doesn't appear anything fancy, but could
this be the HOTS?

Also, when snapping the barrel back into the receiver, The lever
released the spring loaded bars to tip the barrel, but it appeared
necessary to press the barrel against the retaining lever to secure
it. Is there a way to retract these pins to limit wear?

Thats all for now, I'll be looking for some glass to use and will
post some more pictures soon.

Arnold

I'm sure others can help you with your questions better than me (I don't have a tipper); 
I just wanted to congratulate you on your new acquisition. 

Ken

Congratulations Arnold !!! I will gladly help you celebrate, once I
come out of coveting mode ! Promise ! Currently green with envy
!!!

Serial number is 50-0049. It is a tip barrel in .177 from Pickering
Airguns in Scotland. I had those kind folks send it to John W. for a
tune-up and muzzle break installation. I had an Elite 6X24 w/ mildot
set aside for it but unfortunately it is a wee bit too long.
Fortunately I had a spare Weaver V16 that fit perfectly.

John,
It's a beauty, and I'd bet, a real fine shooter.
Leo.

I'm sorry if this is a repeat message as I'm having trouble posting.
I just wanted to mention that I saw this rifle in Pickering a few
weeks ago on the rack - it looked great and I hope you are having
fun.

Regards, Jon.

John,

Congrats on the fine acquisition! It looks stunning in that
picture. You'll have to let us know how it shoots!! Or are you
just keeping us in suspense?

I was wonderng what sort of stocks are favoured. I like the look and
utility of the field target stock and it suits the sort of shooting
that I do - but it is heavier and more expensive than the sporter
stock. What are your views?

Regards, Jon.

You've probably done more testing and calibrating of Whiscombes than
anyone else around here. Please tell us, how much variance have you
gotten from the adjustment of the HOTS system on your Whiscombes?
(like from worst case to best case).

Ken

Anybody tried swapping barrels back and forth?? It sounded like a good idea
before I got the rifle and barrels. However.... I wonder 1) how hard is it to
actually change barrels? 2) Loss of POI and HOTS system optimization when
barrel is swapped back into place?? 3) Is it just better to leave well enough
alone?? Thanks!!

I'd also like to know the answer to the original 3
questions, can anyone address them?

Leo.

Hey Rod, good to hear from you.
I've got a JW-70 (soft-spring) coming some time this
summer, I hope, with both .177 and .22 barrels.

JW swore that I shold give the .22 a chance for FT,
giving that the gun should be a smooth shooter at
around 20fp in that caliber... I know everyone says
that the bigger pellet is a disadvantage and all, but
he said that the .22 should have a flatter and more
stable trajectory (better ballistic properties), and
with that much energy and mass, even a splitting
pellet should some targets down.

I figure on giving the .22 a chance. Heck, if JW said
to try it, how can I to argue, right? If it doesn't
work out for me, I'll switch to .177 for FT. I'm sure
the .22 will be handy for hunting anyway.

Are you going to the Nationals? How about Roz and
some of other Whizzer shooters?

Leo.

First off, i'm changing my email, and need these posts to come to my now one,
which is:

.... how do i get this accomplished?

As to the current discussion on swapping barrels and HOT vageries .... i have
found swapping barrels doesnt take long, but some barrels shoot so far enough off
that a different scope mount is required (i abhor adjustable mounts).

As to the HOT system, on some barrels it does more than others, but in general, it
seems to shift poi as much as group size. I have found it can make groups larger
than 2" at 50yds, or smaller than 1/2" depending on setting if the barrel is
ALREADY capable of shooting some really good groups. The real value is in
retuning for different pellets, and in this case the differance you are looking
for are very slight.

I hate changing the setup once its on, becuase it can take a couple hours to get
the hot retuned on the bench, and i shoot in a tunnel with no wind to confuse the
issue! A tip, don't even BOTHER to try and reset poi until you are done with the
adjusting as it will walk all over the paper sometimes.

As to .22 for FT, well, though .177 is an advantage, the top springun shooter in
OUR club (George Gardner) uses .22 cal and wins well over half the matches in his
class!

ld

First: Thanks to you all for your comments on ease of barrel
swapping.
Sounds like worth a try. I plan to switch the barrel on my current
JW80 from
the .177 barrel now mounted to the .22 barrel that came with the
rifle. Then
leave that .22 barrel in place once HOTS, POI, remount scope, and
sighting in
process is solved.

I have a brand new .177 caliber JW70 just completed by John Whiscombe
due here next week. So I will end up with the older rifle
"rebarrelleed" to .22
caliber and the new one in .177

Second: A surprising word to the wise. John Whiscombe warned me NOT
to
try putting one of the 2 year old Whiscombe barrels onto the just
made, new
JW70. He said over the years he has progressively redesigned his
barrels. I
do not quite remember the details but would strongly suggest you call
him up
and discuss it with him before trying to put just any barrel onto
just any JW
rifle. Apparently there can be trouble putting them together unless
you bought
them from him at the same time.

I have found John to be delightful, friendly, helpful, and quite
useful to talk
with on the phone. Full of advice about how to optimally use his
rifles: pellet
selection, lubrication, dissassembly suggestions, etc.

Also, if you are looking for a used Whiscombe, you may want to call
him.
Sometimes he actually acts as an agent for an old customer who wants
to sell
one.

--- Leo Duran <leo_duran@yahoo.com...: Leo. Yes Leo I plan on going to the Nats
with Roz this year. Roz has been shooting an SR lately and shooting
fine with it. When He picks up his Whizzer again, He will be tough to
beat. How long before you get your "soft" 70. That is definetly my
recommendation for an all around Gun. You will be fine with that
caliber as long as you get a GOOD RFinding scope. I shot at the GOB
match last weekend and almost pulled a .20 cal to finish the match
the second day. I did not have enough time to practice before the
match started so I used the 70. I missed one offhand shot I should
have made and that took me out of a tie with Brad for first, Drats!!!
But I will get him soon ha ha . Let me know when it arrives and I can
offer more tips---Rod

I had a good time shooting my JW55 yesterday in Huntsville. I thought
I had my first bonified "shift" at the match. It turns out I was
doing something differently. As far as my experience goes with four
different Whiscombes, All my "shifts" were due to my hold or grip on
the rifle. I ended up with a 25 out of 30 on a fairly easy course. I
am sure I bulled some targets over with bad hits though (target
malfunction). I will still take the score!!!. The JW's are to me well
worth the money in machinery and craftsmanship. I feel precharge guns
are simply tanks and valves. JMHO, but I feel the JW to be the better
value and most versatile rifle of all. Anyway I had a ball and can't
wait to do it again. Can anyone post some happenings lately (JW
related especially). Where has everyone been lately?--Rod

Just heard back from JW today.
He estimates about ten more days to get it ready to go.

With the "soft spring", he expects the gun will do 16-17fpe in .177,
and around 20fpe in .22. I responded by saying I wouldn't mind
loosing an fpe, or two, to get the smoothest action possible...
should be sweet!

Leo.

THAT's PERFECT! 
You're gonna love it.  I shoot mine every day.

Ken

Ken,

You've settle on .177, right?
What pellets did you decide are best: CPH or JSB
(8.44gr?)
With your pellet of choice, what speeds are you
getting?

Leo.

John,

Once we get our guns, we need to do a TX Whizzer
fun-shoot -maybe some Silhouette. I know of Ken,
Charlie, and you... anybody else that you know of in
Central TX?

Leo.

Leo, I posted some pic's of some things I do with the Whizzers. The
pic of the dime and spinner were shot yesterday with the 70 shooting
8.4's at about 860fps. No wind and I was in "the zone". I wanted to
see how many times I could hit the 1" spinner . I hit 13 out of 15
shots sitting (with my home made harness) .Two of the hits were
around the edge of the spinner. The rest were fused into the smaller
1/2" circle of the washer. I found it amazing it would "fuse" these
pellets at this range. This size group is not too unusual but I do
not usually shoot more than 5 shots for groups. The other target was
with the same gun sometime ago . The gun was set at 1050fps with the
same pellet. The first shot hit low and you can see where the rest
went. I know there was no way I should have changed it but I am
always trying different things. I have many more targets not as good
but some five shot groups better. They say if you shoot enough you
get "lucky" well I guess it is true, but the guns will do this once
you learn them. I will post more pics later. Leo, do you have your
rifle yet?

Rod,

Please re-send pictures, as they did not get attached
to the previous e-mail. Sounds like you and that 70
are becoming ONE...

Mine should be arriving towards the end of this month:
a seven month wait! - But, if that is what it takes
to get the best "springer", so be it.

Leo.

Rod,

Great shooting!

Had a friend of mine shot a penny at 11.5 yards with my JW80. It
shoots 930 fps with 14.3 CP's. Busted the penny in two pieces !! The
amazing thing was that the penny was taped to a piece of cardboard
with clothes for a back stop. This thing will one hole it at this
range with this speed. Man I love these whizzers. Beauty, power,
accuracy,all in one package.I can go from FT to hunting to plinking
with the same gun. In the same day!! Anyone done anything fantastic
with JW's lately?

OK,
I'm rounding up some .177 pellets to test on my
"soon-to-be-here" JW-70.

Here's my list so far:
Kodiak Match - 10.6gr (Ken's recommendation below)
FTS - 9.20gr
JSB - 8.44gr (same as Daystate, from AoA)

Now, the JSBs come in two skirt sizes: 4.51 & 4.52mm.
Should I try them both ($7.95/500), or is there a
"known" better size for Whizzers?

I'm disregardding CPH's for now, due to the "quality"
(or lack thereof) issues they seem to be suffering
from as of late - as noted below by Ken.

Leo.

I didn't have as good of results with FTS as compared to JSBs.   The JSB velocity was very high, too (like 1030 fps).   JSBs grouped about the same at 35 yards as Kodiaks (all shots covered by a dime).

Kodiaks were (as I remember) at about 975 to 980 FPS.   I use them exclusively now.

Ken

My airgun shooting has been reduced by hot weather,
work, and bicycling lately; but I've shot ONE pellet per day at 30 yards
(all standing off-hand shots, of course). 
Every day at lunch, we have pest squirrels digging in our flowerbeds and eating the bird's food. 
I've made every shot count for the past 8 weeks. 
Do the math:  Approximately 45 pellets and 45 dead squirrels. 
Every shot has been a quick pest elimination.  
Quietly load and cock the gun in the house and then softly open the balcony door.  
Stand out of sight for about 2 minutes
(because the squirrels almost always hear me and will dart away otherwise).  Then, ease out through
the open door, assume my off-hand shooting stance, and squeeze the trigger until the gun fires. 
Bingo, one less squirrel to dig up our pansies, chew holes into our attic, and nibble on our romex wiring.

Ken

Ken,

What skirts size were the JSBs you tested?
Did you try both?

Leo.

Yesterday I put an old trusty ss-1 beeman scope on my 80 at an
attempt to make a good hunting setup. It turns out to be a nice set-
up.Concering the Jsb, daystate pellets--I am not sure the 4.51,.52
numbers designate head sizes. Maybe so but if you look inside the
skirts, you can notice a difference in the way each is made. So just
maybe the number have something to do with a dofferent measurement on
the pellets. Either one one them shoots fantastic in my JW's.

Just talked with John, and he says he's going to discontinue the
silverized barrel/receiver: too much work & hassle for the return$ -
says he has to travel about 50 miles to a shop where to get some of
the work done.

By his account, there were only about a dozen made that way, so
those of you that have one, including me, are holding an even rarer
collector's item!

Leo.

I am sure you will let everyone know when you get your silver top.
Have U ever seen one before? If not, you are in for a big surprise!!!
they are beautiful rifles.Go ahead and invest in a bore snake barrel
cleaner, blue loc-tite, a pad for notes,a good silicone cloth, some
strap wrenches if you will be changing barrels (not recommended until
you are completely familiar with the rifle),did you get a butt pad
spacer? I do not think you will need one cause if I remember right
you are about my height.(But they are nice to experiment with).You
may already have this stuff. I am excited for you. Will you be doing
BRouge again next year?

Rod,

No I don't have any of that stuff you mentioned...
Well, I will now - thanks for the tip.

Whre do I get a butt-pad spacer from? Is that
something I shoul've gotten from JW? Or is it a
generic, univesal-type deal?

About Baton Rouge, you bet! I'll be there again.
Hopefully by then I'll know this gun good enough to
compete with it.

In regards to barrels, as I mentioned, I'll leave it
with the .22, and see how I do with it. JW makes a
very compelling argument for it: .22 at close to
20fpe, and no felt recoil... - it's worth trying
anyway.

Leo.

---Yes, Leo you can order that from JW. I think you should have it
sent with your gun if you can. I think you will like the .22 for FT.
Do your homework and get a good RF scope and it will serve you well.
After a while you may want to change but then again it may suffice
you. I think it boils down to personal likes-dislikes. I have done
some awsome things with the 80 in .22. I had a little fun with the 80
yesterday shooting pears out ot the top of my tree@ 50 yrds,offhand.
Man it really WHACKS/EXPOLODES them, especially on a center hit.I
think the .22 is the most accurate one to shoot. In BR it may be a
killer to rangefind accurately so know what you new scope will do in
the dark lanes.

Hi Leo,
The aluminium is shot peened to smooth the surface then anodised
after having been chemically brightened and flash dipped in black
dye to give it the "blue rinse look".

The gun shoots nicely at about 800ft/sec in .22 and 950 ft/sec with
JSBs in .177. I had to change the springs around a bit to get the
best "feel" at the right power. It has ended up with 8" inners and
outers rather than 8.75" outers on their own. It is the first soft
70 that I have built and I like it. The normal 70 has 8.75" inners
and outers.

I will ship the gun out on Monday.
John W.

Hello everyone,

I'm taking the initial steps for ordering a whiscombe. Just sold an
airgun and I'll be sending off the deposit sometime within the next
two weeks. I emailed John and he said that he accepts the initial
deposit in US dollars and the rest in Sterlings. That'll save me an
extra step, Cool! I'll be ordering the JW 70 "soft" spec. in .22 cal
and maybe add a .177 cal barrel. I'm really excited to be getting
one of these. He also said that the waiting list is about 6 months
so that leaves me with time to collect the rest of the funds. Now
time to start thinking of what to scope it with. Any suggestions?

Thanks,

gabe

Well, I know someone that's going to have a smile on his face in a few months. 

Everyone that shot mine got a big ear-to-ear smile on their face as soon as the rifle fired.  It's the coolest feeling.

I had to come up with pounds for the down payment, too; so if John has relaxed that requirement a bit it will be a lot easier to get an order placed.  I think it would be easier to convert dollars to pounds at his bank than it is to get British Sterling Pounds from our banking system.  It took me over a week through Bank of America. 

Ken

I made my final payment via "MoneyGram", available
from "The Money Box", and others.

Although the service charge is steep, at $118, they
use the prime-internation exchange rate (lowest
possible) - so, when you add it up, it all comes to
less out of pocket. Also, there aren't any hidden,
intermediate fees (your won't be greasing any palms).
The money is wire-transferred to all "MoneyGram"
participants in the UK, so John just goes to his
nearer town and get his funds (UK pounds)
cash-on-the-spot.

It worked for me.
Leo.

BTW, I got the "MoneyGram" idea from the folks at
American Express.

In regards to the "best choice" of scope, I guess it
would depend a lot on the intended use of the gun:
Field target, Silhouette, Hunting, General-purpose,
etc.

For field target, for example, the following seem to
be the "people's favorites":
Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24x40, and 8-32x40 - under $500
Leopold Competition 35X from Premier Reticle (range
adjusted to FT- under $1000

If you like side-wheel focus, Tim at Mac-1 has some
Hakkos 8-34x56, and 8-50x56 - under $700

Leo.

Thanks for the tip Leo. I'll check into it when I make the final
payment. I think I'll end up getting an elite 6-24. I had one and
really liked it. I was thinking of a leupold, but they're kinda
pricey.

gabe

I have the Bushnell 8-32X Rainguard Elite on mine.  A fine rifle justifies a fine scope. 

When I get over my current illness (Harley-itis) a new Leupold is in my future for the Whiscombe.

Ken

The first "soft-spring"-70 has left the lot, and it's now on my
grease little hands... I'm lubing .22 pellets now.

Leo.

That's the model that I'm going to order and in .22 cal. Let us
know what you think of it. It's a two stroker,right? If you have
pics, that would be awesome.

gabe

Gabe,

Yes, it's a two-stroker, as it supersedes the JW-65.
I shot a few pellets today, and, as expeted, the
action is real smooth. I also got the .177 barrel,
but the .22 is what's I'm using for now.

I chronoed a 10-shot group, using .22 CPH:
High: 810 fps
Low: 803 fps
Avg: 807 fps

Right around 20fpe (20.68) - But, I do have a couple
of restrictors: 2.5mm, and 3mm, in case I need to tone
it down some for FT.

After sighting-in at 30 yards, I got this 5-shot group
in the attached pic. This gun is real sweet to shoot,
and it's not even broken in yet!

Leo.

Yes, he sent:
1) hand-written note: how to remove/install the
restrictors, and about lubing the pellets.
2) typed-copy: operating instructions, about how to
cock/load/shoot the gun.
3) typed-copy: barrel changing intructions.
4) typed-copy: match trigger adjustments.
5) typed-copy: HOTS adjustment intructions.

Ken,

He said: "...both HOTS are rougly adjusted for their
respective 20fpe (.22), and 17fpe (.177)...". So, I
honestly have not intention of messing with them in
the shor-term.

But, he went on to say: "...but they could do with a
little fine-tuning... adjusting the HOTS is OK, as
long as you remember where you start."

I'll let you know if/when I learn how to do it.
But, I'm actually hoping we could both learm from an
experienced shooter, maybe someone else in this group?

Leo.

Hi Leo, congrats on the now HD toy. I probably would not touch the
HOTS yet. Not that I think you would not or could not improve groups,
you might. But once you loosen them you might have a prob with it
coming loose in the future. I would use my time adjusting myself to
the gun first, then fine tune the gun much later. The gun will shoot
fat pencil sized 5 shot (centered) groups at 30yrds --always without
the benefit of a bench.Other spring guns can as well just not at the
JW high energy level. That is what makes these guns so unique. When
you can do this then tweek on it if you like. If you don't get those
type groups then be able to call your misses.I assume you can't yet
so forgive me if you can!! . Don't touch the trigger yet either. John
sets them up really good. When you can tell something does not feel
right with it, then adjust it. If you feel nothing you are not
adjusted to the gun yet. Just some advice from someone that has MANY
thousands of rounds through whizzers. Actually I have an
unofficial "soft" seventy. John and I talked about the "soft" seventy
and I was (or at least one of) his guinea pig(s) (especially in the
USA) for the soft idea.I am crazy about a "soft" 80 too! I have been
shooting more lately and am amazed with these guns. The JSB's will
shoot really well at high velocities too. I will explore that more
later. I just touched on HV a little . If I remember correctly, I
believe the pellets got "touchy" in the wind at HV (1050fps). Have a
ball and remember You just can not wear the rifles out so just shoot,
shoot, shoot.--Rod

Rod,

Thanks for the feedback.
About scope sight-in: do you not rest the gun?

With my other springers (R1, R8, and HW-97), I rest
the forearm on a "ProtekTor" leather bag, and use my
left hand to support the bottom-rear of the stock - by
the butt.

With my SLR-98, Theoben gas-ram, I place my left hand
on top of the "ProtekTor" bag, and rest the forearm on
the palm of my hand. That gun groups better that way.

How do you get your scope "clicks" with the Whizzer?
Don't tell me you shoot off-hand, or from an FT
position!

Leo.

> Leo Duran

I also do most of my sighting-in 0f air rifles from the seated FT position.  
Especially with springers, this seems to approximate the recoil-biased trajectory better than shooting
from a bench.  It may be because of similar shoulder pressure.
(I look pretty silly sitting on the concrete at the range, shooting from UNDER the shooting benches;
but it works for me.)

For attempting to adjust the HOTS,
though (and other pellet testing) I used a benchrest and folded-up towel. 

Ken

Ken Ridout

Ken, Rod,

Leo, actually I shoot worse from the bench. I know it doesn't make
sense and maybe I should spend more time at it but I get really
impatient when the pellets do not hit where I think they should on a
bench. I do not know how to do it from a bench. Nore do I want to.
The HOTS has to do with some type of harmonics right? Why would I
adjust it on a bench when the harmonics more than likely will change
when I get off a bench? I can't shoot any better than hitting a 1"
spinner most of the time at 50 (which means 1/2" accuracy or better).
So I do not touch the HOTS. Write more later-break over--Rod

Fellows,

I was wondering about what's the mostly needed replacement part...
I was thinking that maybe I ought to get a spare "pair" of springs
to match my gun, as their likely to change in the future, and it may
be difficult to get a close match. Should I even worry about this?

Regards,
Leo.

I wondered the same thing.  Then, I learned that nobody much else stocks spares; and people have had and shoot their Whiscombes for 10 years or more without problems or worry.  SO, I decided not to worry, too.

Ken

I asked JW the same question years ago. He said it wasn't needed.
That tells me a lot about JW and the quality of the guns/parts. He
had the perfect oppurtunity to make some money off of me , but chose
not to. If you have any problems they usually come as soon as you get
the rifle. My 80 had problems though. JW fixed them free ,but I had
to pay for some shipping. I learned to take the guns apart myself. I
will probably order another 80 soon if that tells you anything (other
than I am airgun crazy). Do not worry about parts. Just shoot!! So
what do you think about extra parts?

Had a wonderful time yesterday at our home match (TVA). Not a lot of
shooters there for the FT match (4or5) though. It was a windless day
so my 15 ft lbs was not affected by wind (at least to any degree I
couldn't easily manage). I was shootin good and shot 96% (with the
55).I missed one shot. I do not know if I like the 55 or 70 the best.
I truly belive I can shoot the 70 better, Maybe because I have sooo
many pellets through it. I do not know. Anyway I had a ball. Leo, how
U doin? I guess you have been using your spare time shootin huh? Well
to all thinking about a JW gun-- Save up , sacrifice and do it, you
will not regret it. Anyone else doin any JW shooting?

Rod,

Sounds like you're doing real well at FT... congrats!

I haven't been able to shoot very much lately. My
oldest daughter is starting college this year, she's a
"Longhorn" like her dad, so I've been pretty busy with
that.

I did have a fellow airgunner come by on Saturday to
look at the Whizzer, and we shot a few pellets to a
13-yd "spinner" setup I've got on my back fence. I
was hitting the 3/4" off-hand, no probs... As you well
know, this gun does not feel like a springer, it sure
is sweet!

Leo.

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I'll plan to take it and let you know when and where you can visit, hold, and shoot the rifle.  It'll be cool meeting you.  We're staying at the YMCA of the Rockies just outside Estes Park.  I'll have the Harley there, too.  (maybe even my bicycle).  I'm planning on a rip-roaring good 5-day vacation.

Ken

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This place has been dead lately. How you coming with the whizzer?
Have you been doing any shooting? I have been shooting the 80 in .25
a lot lately in prep. for S. season. In .25 I am gettin about 825
with RWS domes. I have been practicing off of rests cause My hunting
accuracy has suffered some since I started FT. I need to rest now on
shots I used to hardly ever miss. You should save up for a .25 barrel
for your 70, if you hunt alot. It drops 'um dead! (My girlfriend is
readin over my shoulder and tryin to correct my writing). Go
figure!.Leo have any of the other pellets you have tried worked as
well as the JSB's.

I wonder how John's groups are doing?

From his pictures on the "Yellow" page, it looks like
he uses "hard" front&rear bags for bench-resting.
And, as I understand it, the Whizzer does not like
that setup. Also, he talked abot chroning CPLs, not
JSBs, and I'm sure JW adjusted the HOTS for JSBs in
.177... So, again, I suspect he must not be grouping
too well with: (1) his bench-rest setup, and (2)using
CPLs.

Tell us about it John...
Leo.

Rod,

I just got back to shooting a little over a week ago.

I normally shoot on a green-belt area behind my back
fence, and about a month ago (just after I got the
Whizzer), I had a small altercation with my
neighbor... on a count of me, accidentally, lodging a
.22 pellet on his dog's cheek, go figure!
I went to his house to telling what I've done, and
offered to take care of the vet bill, but he got
pretty ugly with me, and called the police. Anyway,
the police gave us both warnings: (1)me for shooting
my airgun in city property, and (2)him for having his
dog running around without supervision - he let's it
loose behind his fence. The policeman was actually
nice with me, telling me story of his airgun days,
shooting behind his house too!

I obviously did not mean to shoot the dog, she's a
real sweet-tempered "lab"... I love dogs, but she was
apparently curious about those things (pellets)hitting
the grass about 75 yards from me - she must've gotten
in the line of fire while I was blinded with the
target.

It turns out my neighbor moved to Dallas, as his
contract in Austion was terminated... lucky me.
Then, just last Tue, the cocking lever locked-up on
me. I e-mailed LD, and also talked with Ruz on the
phone... both of them told me to check the gear-rails
to see if if ther was jam: theeth mis-aligned. I
screded-up, I out the gun down without completing the
first stroke, and as I put the gun down, the levr
moved and cuased a jam. Well, as advised by both LD
and Ruz, amd banged on the lever and it came loose!
what a relief!

Also, just this Sat, I got a sleeve of JSBs, so I'm a
real happy camper now... except for the rain, which
hasn't stop all week-end long. But, I hope "pretty
soon" now, I'll get some shooting done.

Well, you wanted a "good,long, story", how's that?
Hey, why didn't you make the Nationals? They way
you've been shooting, I thought this would be your
year.

Leo.

John,

1/2" to 3/4" groups, and 10-shot at that, that's very
impressive at 50 yards.

Sounds like your bench-resting techniques are just
fine... can you bring your setup along to "AirGun
Fun", I sure'd like to see how you do your magic.

I like your logic about eliminating "hold" variables,
at least to get some idea about how the gun is
"really" doing... I would think that's critical for
adjusting the HOTS.

Just got back from watching "Open Range", have you'll
seen it? I thought it was good, but then I'm a sucker
for them cowboys movies.

Leo.

Sorry fellows... I just tried to read my own e-mail
below, oops, unreadable!

I was in a hurry to get to the movies, but wanted to
kick out that e-mail. Hope you got the "jist' of it.

Leo.

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I hope the Dog is ok around guns now. The neighbor was probably
miserable and unhappy anyway. Good thing he moved huh? Be extra
careful with a HV .22 CP. Those things carry their energy way out
there. I have been really lucky so far, but I will be extra careful
from now on. Thanks for sharing that story. You have opened a few
eyes with that bit of bad luck. You can fix most problems with
whizzers on your own. If you ever want my number E-me at home. My E
is  I had a hard time making it this year to the
NATS, I just couldn't get it together. Every thing went wrong , so I
guess It wasn't for me to go. Roz won again for the third year(so I
heard on the FT forum). That is a first in FT for pre-charged or
springers. Man I wish I could have been there REAL BAD. Brad Troyer
ordered a whizzer and he will be tough to beat too after he gets it!
Man the comp is really tough now (I've seen you shoot too). I have
been shootin OK lately though, and hope to improve more.If you notice
the spring scores and pre-charge scores are getting closer and
closer. I do not think I will ever shoot pre-charge, no need for me
to. Good luck on your shooting and thanks again for the story---Rod

Ken,

The only thing different from the pics I posted on the yellow forum is that the forearm was 
resting on a folded up shop towel on top of the front rest...

John U

Larry D. says that all weight of the rifle should be supported by the wood stock and
the cocking lever should not be touching any support.  (at least I think he said that). 
I wonder if you did anything special,
John, to avoid any of the rifle's weight resting on the cocking lever. 
I've found it very hard to shoot off-hand without my knuckles touching the lever.

Ken

John,

1/2" to 3/4" groups, and 10-shot at that, that's very
impressive at 50 yards.

Sounds like your bench-resting techniques are just
fine... can you bring your setup along to "AirGun
Fun", I sure'd like to see how you do your magic.

I like your logic about eliminating "hold" variables,
at least to get some idea about how the gun is
"really" doing... I would think that's critical for
adjusting the HOTS.

Just got back from watching "Open Range", have you'll
seen it?  I thought it was good, but then I'm a sucker
for them cowboys movies.

Leo.

Heh there I am one of those non-benchers. I have no idea what my FT
guns can do off a bench (my hunting 80 does well with .25 RWS).I can
get those groups most of the time off my knee. I sure would like to
think I could shoot groups like that off a bench. I am no bench
shooter ,but maybe one day I can get serious about the bench. It
sounds like you have a real winner with that rifle. I saw pics on
another forum I believe. Is yours silver top too? How You like it
offhand?

> Sgt John What die number of CPL's were you shooting during your
testing? Were they Die # 6?

> John W set mine (JW70 MK2 SN:014) for CPL's. I shot it straight out
of the box after installing a Leup 6.5X20 and BLK rings refininished
by Spradlins of Colorado. It shot accurate enough but chronod around
720 FPS with CPLs (lubed with slick 50) and 705 with JSB's. Then I
remembered the restrictor. Took it off and chronod around 1000
FPS...ten-shot groups around 1/2 to 3/4 " at 50 yards.
>
> I did notice that some of the CPL pellets required considerable
push to sit in. I decided to resize a bunch of em and use a pell
seat. The groups tightened up considerably...resulting in several
one hole 5-shot groups. Been raining here most of the day so I
didn't set up the chronograph.
>
> A lot of folks don't like bench resting airguns because of 'hold
dificulties'...my personal opinion is that it is mostly BS...the name
of the game in bench resting is consistency...meaning setting of your
gun, rests, ammo and everything else exactly the same every single
time...the only thing you gotta figure out is doping the wind,
atmospheric pressure, and hopefully the gods are in your favor... LOL

Leo,

OK I'll bring my stuff to Airgun fun and have you shooting them tight groups in no time...

John U

I'm pretty sure Tom Price took springun honors three times in a row at
the Nats,
but this was before they were giving much credit to springers.

ld

Happy,

I can't shoot worth beans off hand and as heavy as the JW70 I won't even try...

John U

All die # 5...

    Quiet?  Okay, here're some thoughts to talk about.

        1.  I've been rereading John Whiscombe's 1996 interview with Pete Reiff in U. S. Airgun
(copy kindly provided by Gabe Gonzales).  In in, 
Mr. Whiscombe talks about rifling twists for various airgun projectiles in various calibers. 
He also says that he thinks that usual firearms rifling styles are inappropriate to airgun pellets . . .
not really a big surprise.  With the relative ease of barrel swapping in 
the Whiscombe design, has anyone on the list done any custom barrel experimentation,
to examine other rifling patterns, other twists, et cetera?

        2.  The various JW-FB rifles are recoil compensated (of course . . . duh) and should,
therefore, respond similarly to loose or 
firm holds as do such rifles as Giss system Dianas and FWB 150/300s, which is 
to say tolerant of firm grips and shoulder contacts.  How does the Whiscombe respond to a tight sling?

        3.  Given their power and accuracy potential, one should think that 
JWs would be ideal for long range shooting, as 
John Ulrich's recent reports of his new rifle's performance should suggest. 
But Ray Appelles has been reported to 
hit 75 to 80 yard field targets with his 
FT tuned FWB 300 at factory spec velocities. 
What is long range with the JW rifles?  
Has anyone tried really long stuff . . . 100, 150, even 200 yards?  
With what results? 
What is the set-up: rifle specs, pellets, chronographic data?

    4.  How well does the JW hold POA/POI with barrel swapping?    

David     

Be afraid, be very afraid...
Brad Troyer coming to the Whizeer scene, that's scary.
I witness his composure at the Cajun's this year,
he's very consistent on his technique, and a real
tough competitor.

But that's actually good news, as it will push us all
to get our act together even more.

Like you Rod, I think I'll stick with non-PCP for the
forseeable future. I don't mean that as a put-down,
because one can easily make the argument that a PCP
gun is more of non-intrusive instrument, which
minimizes gun-induced errors. But, I prefer the
self-contained nature of a piston gun... God knows I
don't really need the extra challenge, as I've got
plenty a thing to work on.

Glad to see this many posts flying around... let's
keep it going!

I bought a .20 barrel with my .177 WHiscombe. 
I shouldn't have wasted the money.  I'll probably never use it. 
If anyone wants to buy a .20 barrel for their Whiscombe, mine is available.

Ken

David     

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--- In "JONATHAN ULRICH" <sgtjohn_1@m...>
wrote:
> All die # 5...

Because of my experiences with CPHs, I wondered if the determining factor
of the quality of the pellet might be the little round ball before it's pressed into pellet shape. 
If the ball is too small (or light) the die will produce a poor pellet or a peewee pellet.  
Of course, then there's the issue that CPs need to be cleaned before using. 
I'm using JSB Heavies and Kodiak Match pellets instead. 
They are both pretty much equal performers
with the best CPH pellets in my Falcon, Whiscombe, and Steyr.   

Ken

Ken,

I remember reading a thread on "Delphi". in regards to
folks swapping out the stock Styer barrel, I think for
an Anchutz, don't remember model#... perhaps it has to
do with this riffling issue you guys are japping
about.

Leo.

I think Allen used to use Career barrels.  
There was some issue concerning barrels with his early conversions;
and he rectified them; but I don't know the particulars. 
My Steyr is the only PCP rifle that noticeably spirals pellets. 
My uneducated guess was that the barrel designed for 550 fps wadcutters at 10m was
not applicable to 750fps domed pellets at 50 yards. 
I just assumed it was the rifling. 
LD says that the "lead" (I think that's the right term for where you insert the pellet)
can also cause problems or cure them.  
When I turned the velocity up to 870 fps, the corkscrewing pellets decreased about 95%. 
(smaller corkscrews and not every pellet) 
I've not tried to observe pellets in flight with the Whiscombe.  Maybe this Fall, I'll do that.  
It was a fun experiment with the Steyr and Falcon and more recently with the P70jr.

Ken

Ken,

I've never experienced the "pellet in flight"
phenomenon, until now with the Whizzer. I don't see
them all of time, mind you, but I've had some luck
with mid-range targets, where the pellet path is
pretty much on the line of sight. It blew me away.

For those with PCP guns, like you, am sure this a
common occurence... but moving up from an HW-97, this
quite an experience for me.

Leo.

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I found the .177 Lothar Walther "polygonal rifled barrel" completely
unsatisfactory in my JW60MKII (ser #1) shooting 19+fpe, swapped it for a
Career barrel
that was NOT turned down like the Walther tubes are as fitted for the
JW's. I'm relatively pleased with the results.

ld

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Leo Duran <

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I have experienced that "spiraling" before on a 100 yrd target
(JW80). It was very small (quarter sized or so) but I noticed the
group was in a corkscrew/spiral type pattern. I think it was around
seven shots. I shot ten shots but three went far far away from main
group???. I shrugged that spiral looking group off till I read about
this kind of thing somewhere. I will post a pic of that group if I
can find it. It makes sense to me now. The sprial must always be
there to some degree and increases funnel like the further you go out
there depending on "tune" between round and rifle. Sound possible?

Hello, I have the opportunity to purchase a JW-80 with 4 barrels
from Nick Sweis. Anyone know of this gun or any of its history?

Many thanks

Arnold

Would it be possible to post John's web address in a permanent place,
here?...gtb

Looks like it's there already...
Check it out at:

Hi guys nice forum Ive just ordered my first Wizzer after shooting
one at my local club though its a 6 month wait it'll give me time to
sell My PCP's to fund this little beaut the one I had hold off was
an earlier version and apparently JW has improved the spec a little
now but even the old one was sure a shooter!!! I'm kinda sick of
PCP's now and find them a little soulless so I'm looking forward to
getting the JW60 "I'm in UK silly gun laws" and spending time getting
to know it the one I shot had a silencer and I believe the newer ones
wont take one "the HOTS" an all that jazz But i hear they are no
loader than say a Pro Elite or a AATX that should keep next door
happy!!!!...if anyone could tell me a little more or point me in the
right direction I would be gratefully as Info is kinda
scarse......all the best Dermot!!!!

If i were to buy a UK spec gun it would be the JW50size if you can get
it.
The HOTT setup quiets the gun a LOT, not need for silencer.

The JW50 size can deliver well over 12fpe if needed, but i'm sure JW gets
em right
under for you guys. this size has the least stress on the springs of
about anmy airgun around,
and will provide smoothest most consistant delivery of any. My old one
is near 15 yrs now and still
delivers within 5fps of velocity when new ... has had no repairs or
adjustment ever. Mine is US spec,
delivers 875fps/8gr in .177 and about 715fps/14gr in .22 cal.

ld

---
yep apparently the old legal UK limit gun the JW50 is now the JW60
and I suppose he tailors power according to country its going to, or
if I had a FAC....JW did mention that the HOT's had some kind of
hollow in so Id think that works as a good sound suppressor I also
asked for the match trigger as I heard good reports but really 6Oz
would be ok, but may as well huh? its cool theres a forum......when I
get used to it a little I'm looking forward to doing some Hunter
FT :}...thanx for reply by the wayzzz

--

4sure Gaines!!......I've come to the conclusion that having to many
scope/gun combinations can only do your shooting no good at all..but
I also think a lot of we Air-gunners get a lot of pleasure from
ownership as well, so its hard to strike the right balance...but all
of mine are going and it will be a wrench but I'm sure the Wizzer
will make up for it and I'm keeping two nice pieces of glass it will
be nice not having to mess around with air bottles and stuff too @:@}

There IS some room inside the hotts, for air to expand ... i don't need
to ask, i have one of the first ones he fitted.

ld

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--
Is there much adjustment on the standard 6oz or haven't u ever
bothered mate....

My first one came in set at around 5oz, i left it that way and its STILL
that way after many thousands of rounds.

My second one was mabe 7oz and i reduced it to around 5oz, and my last
one was mabe 4oz as i got it, i filldeld with it a little
because i like the first stage a little longer, but o prefer a crisp
4-5oz to a vague 2 oz. I feel the target trigger is to light, and needs
some fisslin to get it up to the std trigger feel, which i prefer.

ld

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I put a couple o pics I found up Whizzer1 sure has a nice stock
looks like it may have been refinished what u guys think?

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If I had the knowledge, skills, and ability to design and build my own PCP
(like someone I know), it would have soul.  
I have the tools (Bridgeport mill and 36" lathe) but lack the skills and
experience to use them for all but the simplest projects. 

Ken

Ken Ridout
Airco Comfort Systems, Inc.
Quantrac Corporation

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I intended to order one in the near future but all the recent
postings have got me worried...(don't want to wait another year due
to John W. being swamped with orders)...so I sent off an order
today. Downside to this is that I'll have to wait just a little
longer for a Sheridan Supergrade A and B I've been lusting for....

I think that our forum and Internet talk about Whiscombes is causing an increase in orders for John. 
I tried to invite him to the forum, but YAHOO doesn't like his email address (info@whatever.com)

Ken

Anyone use the variminter for a rest? I have one I use for PCP's and
its fine just wondering who the Whizzer would be Hold sensitivity and
all that Jazz,,,,,,,

I don't consider the Whiscombe "hold sensitive"
as the term is applied to regular lightweight springers. 
Mine shoots very accurately and consistently from a rest; but maybe
not if the butt isn't pulled rather firmly into the shoulder. 
I've found that compensated springers like the FWB-300S and
the Whiscombe tend to like firm shoulder pressure. 
i.e. my FWB-300S (if held extremely loosely) 
will create a 1/4" group at 10 meters, but seems to perfectly stack pellets if held firmly.  
I've attempted the same test with the Whiscombe at 30 yards,
but my own shooting skills and the environment make that
more difficult to be as conclusive.

Ken

For first-hand Whiscombe experience, I must defer to you folks with
closetfuls of Whizzers. All the bench shooting setups I've seen in
photographs (including on Mr. Whiscombe's web site) are in standard firearms
configuration (mechanical front rest with sandbag and return-to-battery
indicator, rabbit- or owl-ear rear bag and shottist in usual bench posture
with dominant hand on stock wrist, subordinate hand controlling elevation by
squeezing rear bag at stock toe. My experience with my FWB 300SU is that
standard firearms resting techniques work well, save that consistency of
shoulder contact (as Ken notes, firm but not hard) is a bit difficult to
produce without some practice.

As a FWIW, see www.lahticompany.com. Arne Lahti has developed a
pyrorifle testing fixture (a sort of machine rest), the Lahti Rifle
Evaluator, designed to eliminate operator performance error from the testing
equation, leaving mechanical function of the rifle/ammunition system
unperturbed. It was very favorably reviewed by a writer in Precision
Shooting a few years ago, and the sniper community writers also seem to
admire it.

I've corresponded with Mr. Lahti. I should say that I am unconvinced
that he understands spring-gun recoil patterns, even after my spelling
things out for him in detail. Nevertheless, he says that his device is
compatible with recoiling springers. I can't visualize how one would use a
Lahti rest for break barrel or underlever air rifles (doubt there is
sufficient mechanical clearance), but, if one can contrive a way that will
keep the rifle's alignment in the cradle undisturbed, this ought to be the
"hot ticket" for aerorifle and pellet testing protocols. Doubtless it would
work swimmingly with any PCP rifle and any recoil-compensated spring rifle.
The price is certainly favorable, $324.95 plus $15 shipping, if a dedicated
aerohoplologist who does a lot of testing is interested; it would be a
doable thing if a club or a couple of shooting partners shared the expense.
If naught else, the idea as illustrated in Mr. Lahti's web pages should be
meat for some of the mechanical folks hereabouts to work out a "home did"
testing fixture for airgun dedication. If anyone wishes, I will be happy to
send a copy of the PS article.

David

David,

I must admit tha I'm curious...
What's an "aerohoplologist"?

Leo.

Sorry, I meant to say:
I must admit I'm curious...

--- Leo Duran

David,

I learn something new every day, and today is no
different. Thanks for the dissertation, and keep
those fancy words coming... they sort keep us, well at
least me, on our "mental toes".

BTW, have you decided to order your Whizzer yet?

Regards,
Leo.

"Ergo"... good one. "riflist", another good one.
You sure do have a way with words... and lots of them
at that. I'm gonna have start taking notes to keep up
with you... LOL.

Cheers,
Leo.

David,
I'm just kidding... OK?
Leo.

David, et al,

I haven't figured out, yet, how to get consistent
groups from a rest at 40 yards or more. John Ulrich
tells me he's got it down to a science, and we'll be
meeting at "Airgun Fun" in Dallas, on the 25th.

Frankly, I think my "HOTS" needs adjustment (.177
barrel), but before I tinker with it, I figure on
letting John show me how get he's getting his "tight"
groups. I'll report back on this.

I'd almost guess that Larry D. knows more and has tested more than anyone
in the United States with this rifle.  He's probably the best source of information
on how to get the best bench rest results and HOTS adjustment; maybe in the world. 
I understand that he has a large windless tube for testing rifles at his ranch
(kind of like John Ulrich has access to at his employment). 

The one thing that I read LD say was something like this,
"be sure the rifle is supported wholly by its stock and let none
of the metal cocking apparatus do any of the supporting".  
To that end, I try to rest the rifle on my knuckles on either side
of the cocking lever slot when shooting off-hand.

Ken

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From: "Ken R" <ken@...>
Date: Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:56pm

From: "JONATHAN ULRICH" <sgtjohn_1@...>
Date: Thu Oct 23, 2003 11:19pm

From: "jontalbot333" <jon.talbot1@...>
Date: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:43pm

From: "David Nissen Kahn" <riflist@...>
Date: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:50pm

From: "Gaines Blackwell" <gtblackwell@...>
Date: Sun Oct 26, 2003 6:04pm

From: "jontalbot333" <jon.talbot1@...>
Date: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:15pm

From: "jontalbot333" <jon.talbot1@...>
Date: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:24pm

From: "Gaines Blackwell" <gtblackwell@...>
Date: Sun Oct 26, 2003 11:06pm

From: "Gaines Blackwell" <gtblackwell@...>
Date: Mon Oct 27, 2003 0:14am

From: "JONATHAN ULRICH" <sgtjohn_1@...>
Date: Mon Oct 27, 2003 0:37am

From: "jontalbot333" <jon.talbot1@...>
Date: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:39pm

From: "Gaines Blackwell" <gtblackwell@...>
Date: Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:58pm

From: "David Nissen Kahn" <riflist@...>
Date: Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:58pm

From: "David Nissen Kahn" <riflist@...>
Date: Fri Oct 31, 2003 1:07am

From: "David Nissen Kahn" <riflist@...>
Date: Fri Oct 31, 2003 1:08am

From: Ken <ken@...>
Date: Fri Oct 31, 2003 2:52am

From: "JONATHAN ULRICH" <sgtjohn_1@...>
Date: Fri Oct 31, 2003 3:27am

From: "David Nissen Kahn" <riflist@...>
Date: Fri Oct 31, 2003 4:27pm

From: "gregfromaa" <gregfromaa@...>
Date: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:53pm

From: Ken Ridout <ken@...>
Date: Fri Oct 31, 2003 8:08pm

From: "David Nissen Kahn" <riflist@...>
Date: Tue Nov 4, 2003 7:30pm

From: Ken <ken@...
Date: Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:21am

From: "Gaines Blackwell" <gtblackwell@...
Date: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:27pm

From: "ynotair50" <ynotair50@...
Date: Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:36pm

From: "David Nissen Kahn" <riflist@...
Date: Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:55pm

From: Lawrence H Durham <lhdurham2@...
Date: Tue Nov 18, 2003 4:03am

From: "JONATHAN ULRICH" <sgtjohn_1@...
Date: Tue Nov 18, 2003 4:34am

From: "David Nissen Kahn" <riflist@...
Date: Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:58pm

From: "Gaines Blackwell" <gtblackwell@...
Date: Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:55pm